Yes, I know what black holes are!

Just remember not everyone understands Physics.

Sorry...

Sorry if I sounded snappy, there. I was out of order saying that. I didn't have a particulary good day.

Actually light has properties of energy and matter partials.
I thought only fairies where made from stardust

Giggles are made of rainbow dust and unicorns.

whoa! you talked smart! yah. you are right. and i don't think it's physics though. that would be useful for the students that did the project about black holes. back to the point or whatever saying thatsays back on topic. i think you should have to like kill the black hole or something. then it blows up and and your free.

p.s. firestorm, you are smart.

Thanks.

They say that light can act as both a particle and as a wave, but I think that they say that because they don't really know. There's a whole load of unexplained stuff when you get into that stuff.

We are made of stardust; when a medium-large star (larger than our sun) goes nova, (our sun will become a dwarf), all the remaining 'stuff' (using technical terms now, aren't I?), is sent out, and goes into other 'stuff'. Remember (or be told for the first time...), that most of the elements were created inside stars. After the big bang (if that's your belief), only hydrogen, helium and a little lithium was around, as they were the easiest to create. All the others were created in the hearts of stars, under the intense heat and pressure present. (Yes, I know some have only been known to be created in labs). Then when those stars went nova, all the elements were released, to go towards the creation of other celestial bodies. Therefore, almost everything in our bodies was made from the dust of a dying star.

(p.s. I think that's enough science for now)

Sure thing...umm...we are made of electrons and quarks, aren't we?

Tricky way to throw the atheist view of creation inside this site.
However as you may know atheism is actually a religion whose doctrine is their is no God or gods. This of course conflicts with the views of most other religions so I believe it would be better if we all didn't discus things that could be offensive to each other. In another place I would punch a few holes in that scientific theory as science doesn't actually support any religion (including atheism) it is our interpretation of science that we use to back our beliefs.
I posted this because many people would be offended by that post and I am slightly offended that someone would be able to post comments that has a view completely incompatible with other peoples views right after Steve?s talk about harmony on the site. You don't see me talking about how the Grand Canyon supports my Creationist views on the suggestion that had a river pushing you or a Buddhist talking about reincarnation in response to the Druid morphing into a bear so I don't think someone should be able to post their atheist views on a suggestion about a black hole.

Woah, woah, woah! How on earth did we get straight to religion here?

Firestorm brought up views that would be offensive to people who weren't atheist and I posted a reply about why I was unhappy about the post.

No... What he said is a scientific theory that is more than likely true, not an atheist point of view. There is a difference between Science and Religion. Science is pure fact. Religion is just a matter of opinion.

There is a ton of science to back Christianity and a ton of science to back Atheism.

As you know theory is not pure fact his opinion the theory he stated is that this is true. According to your statement religion is a matter of opinion and this belief (opinion) of his contradicts other peoples beliefs (opinions). Or seems how beliefs are religion. His religious views contradict other people?s religious views, which is fine but doesn't really belong on this site hence my complaint.

Sorry if I sound like I am arguing I am just trying to make myself clearer.
Not that I am against science but science is not pure fact it is composed of theories and hypothesis that may or may not be true. If science was pure fact it would never change and we would still think the earth was the center of the universe. Some theories after it has been agreed by most scientists and tested are then called Laws, which are assumed to be fact until they are disproved.

Firestorm posted a theory and his belief that everything was made from the dust of a dying star. I don't think everything was made from the dust of a dying star (besides of course the dying star where ever that came from) so we have a difference of beliefs or religious views, which Steve would rather not have us discussing.

If you look up atheism you will find a ?doctrine of beliefs that state there is no God or gods? And a doctrine of beliefs is a religion. His view of the creation of the universe does not include God or gods however in accordance to his personal religon. My view does.

Not to say this is probly true or untrue but just because it may be true doesn?t justify its posting. For instance I could say ?President Bush has below average intelligence? Which may be probly be true but may offend people.

Not that I really want firestorms post removed but I think that if the comment approvers are not going to post things that would be offensive to people they should be aware that atheist views can be offensive to people.

p.s. Sorry about the long post but as I said in the druid suggestion think arguments (of any type) need to be broken down before people can really understand each other.

p.s.s. Please don?t respond to my statement about President Bush it was just an example and I am not telling my real opinion about him.

I understand what you are saying about beliefs and opinions. But if we ban all opinions, there would be not be any comments at all.

There is nothing at what Firestorm says is offensive in any way, shape or form, and I'm saying that as impartially as an approver should be. If it was offensive they wouldn't be teaching this in schools, colleges and universities. Same thing goes with your beliefs in Christianity. Everyone has their theory on something and it is alright in saying it as long as it is relevent in the conversation. You both have to accept this.

Now you could go and argue this with Firestorm all day long but can I say, for everyone's sake, stop bickering about something that probably will never be proven. Start commenting on the suggestion in hand.

I don't want to get into this, but I'll just say I agree with both of you a little bit. First, Jeppo, religion is not opinion, because one of them has to be right (whether its one that any people practice or not), whether it is Christianity, Atheism, Buddhism, Hinduism, or anything else.
Secondly, Sketch is partially right too. When I read that thing about us being made from star dust, I got the impression that somebody was trying to slip a little religious background into themetalbox. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say it is offensive, however - after all, seeing someone disagree with me on how everything exists doesn't offend me, I just disagree with them.
Jeppo makes a good point about how the entire suggestions database is based on opinions. However, Jeppo makes an even BETTER point when he says lets keep commenting on the suggestion at hand.

I seriously doubt firestorm was trying to be offensive. I just was under the impression we weren't sharing opinions of religious significance. For example by firestorm saying that this theory is right he is saying that mutually exclusive theories are wrong and I wouldn't expect you to approve anything that says another person?s religion is wrong. Firestorm saying this is how the universe began is a religious topic that contradicts other religions so I don?t see how you could not see it as potentially offensive.
Opinions are great but there is some opinions that cause more controversy than others. There is nothing in my posts arguing against firestorm views or promoting my one views just that we in general steer away from religious beliefs.

I don?t really like the black hole idea because it sounds like a permanent fixture in the map that if anything got suck in they would just die because they couldn?t escape from the pull including Merlin.

I see how it COULD be offensive, but I see how you could also simply let it go, and let them have their opinions. He didn't force it on you, he just mentioned it.

As I said in my first post I am more offended at him sneaking in his religious views up right after we agreed not too than the fact that he has views different than my own. How could I take away his opinion anyway? Nothing I wrote said he was wrong I just presented an argument against atheist posts the same way I would if someone said everyone recarnates when we die if when the druid died he came back as the bear. No harm no foul but I think he tried to pull a fast one and it irked me so I posted my argument of why his statement was religious one and was out of place.
I suppose I could have ignored it but I dislike the thought of tmb being a platform to say that a star made the entire universe and us too.
Then I responded to Jeppo who didn?t see that Atheist Views and Science are different then each other and didn?t see how someone could take offense.
Me I am just offended that he put up secular beliefs after we agreed not to.

Okaaaay...these comments are tooooooo long for me to read...everyone please be less confusing...I love off-topicness, but this is getting plain wierd...STOP IT WITH THE LONG STUFF ALREADY!!!

OK. That's enough.

Stop arguing the pair of you. Any other arguments on this issue will not be displayed on the site, So stop arguing and grow up. If you want to argue like this do it on the appropiate site, not here.

As is your will
If you believe than grown up people don't express their views then you are very mistaken. I actually agree this is not the appropraite site (whole point of posts)

p.s. I have a right to respond if someone insults me

I know how to use bold typeface, too.
And Jeppo, I wasn't disrespecting your authority (don't let that one get to your head, lol), but you can't very well stop Sketch without saying a thing about what firestorm said. I agree they both should be stopped, but you're making Sketch out to be some flamestarter, when in reality, we all just need to let it go. The fact is, firestorm gave everyone as much reason to take offense as Sketch did, so now let's grow up. And I think you're due for a headshrinking, Jeppo. lol

I wasn't intentionally making Sketch out as a firestarter, but if it looked that way, I'm sorry.

Let's not hear anymore of this. It's all I ask. Continue arguing in the forums if you want, but not here. Let's respect mewolf's suggestion.

Err...this is an argument in itself :P

Now I finally get to say something here...

At least twice, Jeppo said 'shut up both of you', and later referred to me and sketch, implying that we were both arguing. I hadn't even read this since I posted that.

Secondly, in that post, I had said, in parenthesis, "if that is your belief". I wasn't imposing any religious beliefs upon anybody, just simply stating how I believe the universe to have been created, and never even implied that I was trying to force that opinion on you.

Thirdly, this is what we are taught in school, in physics lessons.

Fourthly, and finally, the 'we are made of stardust' statement - 'we are made of stardust' is the name of one of the modules in AS Physics, and I was posting the explanation that we were given ('we' being I, and the others in my physics class).

Also, kinda-after-finally, - Morsh - "When I read that thing about us being made from star dust, I got the impression that somebody was trying to slip a little religious background into themetalbox."

Sketch - "No harm no foul but I think he tried to pull a fast one and it irked me so I posted my argument of why his statement was religious one and was out of place."

and probably a few other things. What I am going to say about that, is that you should know by that that I occasionally put random things at the bottom of my posts, like 'Firestar/atl', and some other things. This was just another example.

Also, mostly as a note to the comment approver, if you do not approve this comment, then I sincerely believe that you will be in the wrong, as there have been many posts made 'attacking' my post, and I haven't had a chance to say anything in my defence. It would be kinda like a judge in a court only allowing the prosecution to speak and shunning the defence.

I only approved that comment because I knew if I didn't he would send a million more.

Last word on the matter and this discussion is over.
This is not the judge only allowing the prosecution to speak, this is the judge telling both the prosecution and the defense that the case is dismissed and both sides still trying to tell their story.

You don't 'win' just by typing a post after the judge says 'shut your face'. Request to all mods (including myself): Don't approve anymore posts about this on this suggestion. No matter if they agree with you or not.

You obviously don't know me...

You really wouldn't have been able to only post 1 side of an argument.

I wasn't trying to 'win' by posting after the end; I'm not that sort of person. I was lobbying for fairness.

By the way, this post has nothing to do with religious discussion whatsoever, so on your grounds, you cannot refuse it. I am, however, saying that you are being rather bloodyminded about this whole thing, seeming to go by a 'they got to say stuff before I got fed up, so only what they say should count'. Also, that is excercising my free will, and my right to an opinion and my right to freedom of speech. You cannot refuse a post on the grounds of you just don't like what it says, either.

BTW, seeing as I'm really 'riled up' right now, if you do refuse to put up this comment, I WILL post it repeatedly, until I am i.p, banned, or until you are unmade a comment approver for misuse of power or whatever.

If you refuse to put this post up, no matter what you may say, it would be changing what you've already said, which is one of the things I hate it most when people do; they go back on their word, or they state some rules, then change them as and when it suits them. So don't do it.

Firestorm, I am not going to put up any of your posts until you calm down. I have marked them for steve to decide if they are okay. Don't make this personal against me. Put down your flamethrower and lets let the Suggestions Database regain its casual atmosphere.

I suppose this is somewhat unrelated but the suggestion thing for new suggestions when you log in I believe tallies up submitted comments not approved comments as several times it has said 1 new comment but their was not one. And only after this last "new comments" that was off count and this message did I come to that conclusion. Not really a big deal just thought Steve mind want to know.

I'd tell him about that on the contact form were I you.

Yeah, sorry, I do have a short temper at times.

As stated, I was avoiding a direct attack at you, though.

?shouldn't have said that last line. Makes me sound as though I was trying to get the last word?

Sorry, firestorm, I don't mean to be rude, but I don't believe that you weren't trying a direct attack on me, for several reasons. One being the page you linked to. I think you were trying to defend yourself, which is all fair, but you used ad hominem attacks to do it.

However, your apologies are accepted if that's what you're trying to do.

Well, I was really annoyed, and I think I was kinda 'skirting around the edges' of outright attacking you. I'll admit I was getting more aggressive, but it really did feel as if you were taking Sketch's side and refusing to let me say anything. (BTW, for other readers, the page I linked to just had one of my replies which isn't currently up, and will probably never be up).

It was mostly "I only approved that comment because I knew if I didn't he would send a million more. " that made me mad. Not the suggestion that I would send lots more, but that you deemed it okay for Sketch to say stuff, but not me.

Anyway, it's probably over now, so let's just leave it?

Well, to be honest, I kind of had to lean towards Sketch because Jeppo seemed to be leaning more towards you. You may notice a few points where I accused us all (that includes me, too) of being whiney flamethrowers who needed to let it go. Overall, it was something stupid that didn't have to happen, and now we've wasted a perfectly good suggestion with our petty babbling.lol

Erm... sorry about coming back to it, but I want to say 1 more thing. Please don't tell me off for this (?). I was originally defending myself and my statment, then defending my defence of said things, then complaining about your not letting me defend my defence, which was kinda me being pedantic, then complaining about your conduct, then providing an alternate link to my defence of my defence, with a justification of why you shouldn't be allowed to refuse that link.

It all seems stupid now, to me?

"a perfectly good suggestion"?

I personally didn't think it was that good, actually.

Fights almost always seem stupid afterwards. It's just the way things end up, for some reason.

Me either, really, but I meant "acceptable for the database", instead of what we made it("a religious jihad", lol)

And so, the first (?) firestorm/Morsh war had come to a close, with heavy losses on both sides. Paris will never be the same?

lol. You said that "fights always seem stupid afterwards," but MR fights are COOOOOOOL!!!
Glad to know the discussion's over :P
Err...where did you get a flamethrower?
Only I could use one...one of these days Jeppo is gonna eat me once and for all if I don't get protection...

Ou, you just reminded me of me and Bingo Bob's old war. You should check it out.. I think it's in the comics section but I don't remember. Only it was an actual physical war rather than a battle of the flames.

Note that by actual physical war I mean online words depicting actual physical war.

I'm sorry that I caused so much trouble. I just thought firestorm was setting something up and overreacted. So anyway sorry firestorm, Jeppo, Morsh, and anyone else who reads this and gets in a bad mood because of it.

Sketch, you are an honorable person! (patriotic music in background)
It is people like you who make the world what it is, make the world worth fighting for!
(music suddenly changes to: http://darrendotcom0.tripod.com/ click "the song")
What the???

Well, this sucks.

Is that really Steve?

Yes, because I don't think it's possible for someone to have the same name as someoone else (unless through a glitch or hack). I don't think he was talking about the original suggestion, though, I think he was talking about the flame war that took place.

It is?
Hmm...

It just doesn't sound like him...I checked the user, and it *is* his.
Haven't you noticed that someone got away with pretending to be Donut?

Err...*cough*
Umm...never mind.

Reading this thread made me so mad that I found it hard to find the focus to upload the demo today.

That's why I don't like talking about this stuff. I find it really hard to stop thinking about it and I find it really important that people don't disagree with me. I'm not like that about other things but this subject just gets my blood boiling.

I agree that firestorm made a religious (or anti-religious) statement when he said we are all made from stardust. But I also think that Sketch rather jumped on the opportunity to start talking religion.

But anyway, it seems to have all settled down now. I just hope firestorm hasn't been chased off the site.

I have put up the first of firestorm's comments just so he knows that we are not trying to censor him. However, I can agree with Morsh's reason for not putting it up in the first place - he was trying to protect firestorm from saying things he might regret later, which is admirable.

Firestorm on the other hand, felt like he was being censored. But I have not posted his second comment for the same reason Morsh didn't. I just don't think it would do him any favours to post it now.

Steve, you do realise that you are only extending the debate.

Why didn't my comment get posted?

I was going to ask that the other comments weren't put up? Thanks!

What happened to my comment?
It wasn't to do with firestorm.

I've sent your comment to Steve so that he can decide what to do with it.

I've already made the mistake of letting the argument get out of control. We just want it to sizzle down, now.

Ok, I just found it kinda ironic...never mind.
Is it just u and me online?

Err...is it possible to unsend+delete it?

I doubt it.

There are probably many people reading this who haven't registered. I was one for quite a long time before I registered.

And no, I can't.

Aww...what I meant was is it just u and me logged in...

Umm...apparantly not, no...

Yeah, apparently not.

Who's on right now? (approving comments-wise, seeing as that got approved right away)

[Edit by Matt] I am...sorta.

I must now prove my pshcic powers! The following will be edited out be a moderator:
AHDFAJENSOGNAKJIHGAWHALJKa
dajFELKHAIHGIAEKLFAEF
aHIFJLAKEJLIJHHAGILAEKLf
aFHJEHKLJASHDFLKEWHJIFHg
EJHGIKJLKSJFIEHA
HLKEAJFKLAHELHLKGKLJEKLAH
gLEKlHFKLEKL

---

[Edit by Matt] Wrong, we are Approvers.

---

Pedant.

Once I called someone a pendant by mistake?

Pendants are cool.

No, but this will.

[Edited by Steve] Damn right. That was the ugliest block of text I have ever seen.

so...much....smart! you guys hould make a book about this. it mit make your head grow a bit.
and. SWEET! I'M STAR DUST! I WOULD HAVE JUST SETTLED FOR DUST!

Y'know, that could technically be considered as trying to revive the argument, or at least getting back to the discussion...

firestorm, nobody at school belives me or you. they don't think htere star dust. star dust is cool. and so is urainium. and plutonium. and other desructive slash radioactive stuff.
steve no cussing!i'm under 18!

Did steve really edit that? Or did you type it?

Everyone here is so immature...

firestorm: You do realise that you just called yourself immature?

Donut you appear to be baiting me or firestorm to continue the debate but seem unaware that neither firestorm nor I are interested or can be so bluntly manipulated. I would appreciate it if you would exercise some judgment and stop.

it *implies* everyone *else*, and even not *everyone*, but the vast majority.

Look, WE ARE NOT IMMATURE, END OF IT!!!

I don't *think* he was trying to bait us, but it was still stupid to come back to the 'discussion'.

have u noticed that at the end of all comments were not talking about what were suppused to be

So?

Darren - read around. You'll see what I mean.

I know what you mean, but...oh, that...WE ARE NOT IMMATURE!!!
We come here to have fun.
You are sounding like an old lady at the moment.

its a wee bit late to say this but HOW DO YOU USE BOLD TYPEFACE?

that...and...

man! either firestorm coppied and pasted that off google(hope i can say google) or hed make a great phisisist(im not the best speller around)and(if he already isnt a phisist)(i gotta learn how to spell)

You don't. Some others did during the moderator experiment, but they weren't supposed to. Any html included in comments is usually deleted by me. This is to avoid messing up the page display.

Well, guess what??!!

I'm a science freak!

So, let's explain Black Holes.

When a very large star is burning fuel, it burns hydrogen. Actually, it doesn't have flame, but it is nuclear fusion, like a hydrogen bomb, (H-Bomb).

When it runs out of hydrogen, it will burn what is left over of it, helium. And it will keep on repeating this process through oxygen, nitrogen, etc, until it reaches iron.

Iron, is a problem. It requires more energy to burn than it gives off, so the star can no longer support itself. It then crunches because the power of gravity is not opposed by the force of the burning to conteract it. Then it crunches and shrinks.

When the star gets really small, the the pressure goes WAY up, and because high pressure = high temportature, the star suddenly has enough energy to burn iron... then it uses up all its energy and shrinks, and grows and shrinks..

This process repeats itself for a long time, and soon, it will get to a point where it will shrink so much and get so hot, that it will explode into a supernova, and the star is blasted to stardust.

A supernova is as luminous as 30 million stars/suns, and will last several billion years.

What's left of that? The core, which is super dense from the massive shrink.

Since the denser things are, (more weight per volume), the higher gravitational force they have. That means there is a difference between 10 kg of feathers and 10 kg of steel.

Now, gravity is so powerful, that it can suck light into it... and since it's gravity is so strong, the light is not fast enough for it to bounce off and it's like a bouncy ball on earth... the gravity will always keep it on the surface.

When an object is placed onto a black hole, the item is compressed to a point where it is only a few molecules wide, even though itself is trillions of trillions worth of molecules. The gravity has squished it together.

Now, here's where Merlin and Black Holes can meet, when he gets close, he will enter Event Horizon (scientific name) 1, and will feel a sucking on him towards the black hole. He has enough energy to escape.

But, if he is sucked to a point of Event Horizon 2, no matter how fast or green potions he has, he will never exit the grasp of the black hole, no matter if he had 3 million pounds of nuclear fuel, he is doomed.

Now, he will stretch cuz the gravity sucks him apart like he is teleporting away. Then he will shrink. And be compacted into 1 pixel... and that's Merlin.

No one knows what it will exactly be like, but most likely, Merlin will be wasted... but he will not stretch since the gravity is too strong for him to move outwards.

I have simplified everything very much... if you'd like a complete explanation, tell me.

Oh, and awesome suggestion.

um........i like cheese.......

OMG!!!

You delete HTML stuff??!!

Uhhh!!

I don't like that. It sucks, cuz I use bold/italic interface a lot, and I find it helps me do stuff.

*sigh*.

Grr. I feel angry.

Also, I don't think people should discuss religion on TMB becuase it can get really nasty, and remember, people fight wars back then because of religion, whether it was to spread it of destroy it.

I don't think that HTML should be junked. If I knew that we could use HTML, then I'd be using it, I just thought that the chat boxes weren't really advanced, but I really don't like the fact we can't be using HTML, because it's a way for me to colourfully state things.

And how come there are comment approvers like "Matt" still around..? Or is it just from before you took them out again?

I don't beleive in any religious culture, because I find myself having a hard time dealing with religion, since I like to go with rock hard facts, rather than religious stuff, since Science and Religion is incompatible.

In fact, back then, there were a bunch of astrophysicists, and they found out that the sun doesn't orbit us, but we orbit the sun. They were instantly killed by religious people because religion stated that we humans were very important, and that the sun orbits us, (since the the sun goes around the Earth) making us think that we were important because, look at the sun, it's orbiting us.

Well, so, the physicists that proved that were killed very quickly, so that was probably the first step that showed us that Science was imcompatible with Religion.

I am going to make a statement religion. I am not willing to argue, as this can be very hurting, but I am just stating my opinion.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Back then, religion was the only way to explain unexplanatory things. How humans were made, why the suns follow us.

Different religions were made to explain different things. Because they were so convincing, many people decided to beleive the religion.

But, when true Science showed up, and told us the real truth, the loyal religious people took that as a huge insult, and since most people were religious, they killed anyone who made a dent into their religion.

But, as Science proved to be more accurate, many people abandoned many religions.

Many religions can help us feel better, like taking death, and the afterlife as Egyption Lore, or Christanity as heaven and hell.

But, modern day science proves to us that death is what it is, like unconciousness, and I think that religion is just a way for people to hide themself from the fact that there is no place to go to after death.

However, the way other people say might be totally opposed to my opinion, since they believe otherwise, and my loyalty to science, and another person's loyalty to their religion is unpryable, so...

In history, there was no real way to stop a religion, other than ridding them, AKA killing them.

Obviously, we can't do that nowadays, since that is considered murder, and arguments lead to nowhere, except hurt feelings and rage.

Well, I've said what I've had to say, and I have nothing else to say.

I'm not even going to try to read that...

No I didn't read all of it either, so if anyone's offended by any of it, soz.

I will talk about the HTML though. My thinking here is to keep the pages nice and tidy, however, I am open to the idea of allowing certain specific HTML so if someone wanted to put that forward as a suggestion it might happen. After all, it wouldn't take any programming on my part, just a change in my behaviour.

Actually, I've done it myself [suggestion_4535]

I meant the one before the religion one. I don't want a big argument but can people please just not mention religion around here, as it stirrs up anger in some. Please post this, Steve, I'm just trying to stop any potentail arguments.

I think that the black hole should be put in the game and if you fall into it then as punishment you have to read all of this suggestion's posts before continuing the game.

lol, wesdaman9!

Thank you, Darren. I thought I was gonna have to kill Carefree_butterfly for heresy.

Your welcome, but what did I do again?

By the way, I respect your religion.

And if I went back to the 1400's and said that, I'd have been dead by now.

(Catholics at that time ruled.)

Hmm.
Do you mean the rule of Bloody Mary, Carefree_Butterfly?
And, out of interest, where do you live?
Countrywise?